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Author Topic: Sukiya Living (per JoJG): Under which of these 4 categories does this label fit?  (Read 16093 times)

edzard

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For further clarification please refer to the opening remark in the following link:
http://myjapanesegarden.org/talk/index.php?topic=289.0

       thanks, edzard

don

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Two different things.  Sukiya would best fit under stereotype as it is a term for a traditional Japanese architecture.  "Sukiya Living" is a term coined by JOJG to refer to (i believe) many things relating to sukiya, including architecture, gardens, tradition, Cha no Yu, etc.  So it might fit under all of the terms you present.

BTW, I expected you to mention the source of your quote by now.  ???

edzard

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hmm,. maybe... to 2 different things...
sources: welll... maybe.. but I have until March 4 or after all the votes are in... shrug, why give everything away??

Yama

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Hi Edzard
I have not recieved JOJG/sukiya living yet. They don't like me ?   ;D     will you check it ?

 Meaning of Suki is "like"< I like a flower, I like you. I like to drink  etc> some one or any one "like" is called suki mono. mono /person. sukiya is one of archetcual style of Japanese house but term of sukiya also relate to  suki and Sukimono.
"Nanboroku" which consider of bible of tea ceremony explain meaning of Suki , Sukimono. Nanbo who was Zen monk kept words of Rikyu and detail of tea tools/Cha dogu, tea ceremonies. "roku" means record.
 JOGJ may  want to you to  know thir way of sukiya living, but they may not want you know that foundation of  suki, sukimono is based on Buddhism. (that what Rikyu said. )
JOJG like to modyfi or cheng meaning of suki,Sukimono,sukiya thir way;D
It is freedom of speech and mind  ;D
 I am honestly think that chenging name of the magzin will help them to grow.

I know ,I know
 my posting is not answering to your question.
yama

edzard

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-- as long as you voted on the Poll Mike.. you answered the question ;D

--- and I appreciate the explanation... thanks..

edzard

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well... there was no purpose for this poll... I simply wished to know how effective Sukiya Living was in establishing that craft and artistic design was important.. and where the term fit in relationship to Guenter Nitschke's selected descriptions....
I gather it fits into something 'other' than those developed by known scholars. As.. my vote was for the Craftsman.

I would very much like to know what the 2 'other' definitions would be, if anyone can suggest an idea.
How should one view 'Sukiya Living'? :-\ ???
(IF it is not a Prototype = artistic,
nor a Type requiring craftsmanship,
nor a Stereotype made by a commercial minded individual which = Japanese garden.
Then.... if it is not another term for Japanese garden as Douglas has described in his editorial.....
then What is Sukiya Living? to people..... what does it mean to them???
-- just "other" ??)

Jando

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Hey Edzard how about-Sukiya Living means living in a Tea House.  All the definitions I saw for Sukiya were related to Japanese architecture or the architecture of a Tea House.  I guest because Sukiya is a Japanese word and a Tea house is found in a Japanese Garden brought on the idea of Japanese Garden Living.  I for one may sometimes think I live in my garden but I really live in my house!!! :D

Cheers  June

don

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That's it, June.  Except remember for sukiya, the word architecture means both landscape and structure!

Jando

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Ahhhh, Don now I see the big picture!

June

kikujunjo

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Hi Edzard
I have not recieved JOJG/sukiya living yet. They don't like me ?   ;D     will you check it ?

 Meaning of Suki is "like"< I like a flower, I like you. I like to drink  etc> some one or any one "like" is called suki mono. mono /person. sukiya is one of archetcual style of Japanese house but term of sukiya also relate to  suki and Sukimono.
"Nanboroku" which consider of bible of tea ceremony explain meaning of Suki , Sukimono. Nanbo who was Zen monk kept words of Rikyu and detail of tea tools/Cha dogu, tea ceremonies. "roku" means record.
 JOGJ may  want to you to  know thir way of sukiya living, but they may not want you know that foundation of  suki, sukimono is based on Buddhism. (that what Rikyu said. )
JOJG like to modyfi or cheng meaning of suki,Sukimono,sukiya thir way;D
It is freedom of speech and mind  ;D
 I am honestly think that chenging name of the magzin will help them to grow.

I know ,I know
 my posting is not answering to your question.
yama

Please forgive my presumptuousness in correcting you Yama. I really like the Japanese language, especially the kanji, and study it a lot.

Well, I gotta disagree with one of the details above reading the word 'sukiya'. While there is a character in Japanese read 'suki', ( 好き)meaning "like(able)", that is not the character I find associated with the term 'sukiya': 数寄屋

The character (数)'su', according to my kanji dictionary, means 'number', and (数寄) 'suki' means "adverse/varied fortune". The character in the middle, (寄)'ki' means both 'strange' and 'odd number'.(屋) 'ya' of course means 'house, abode, store, and so on. I take the word 'sukiya' to literally mean 'abode of refinement', or "place of varied experience".

Also, according to my Japanese etymological dictionary, the character (æ•°) "su/suu" has an earlier form (數), which combines (攵)'stick in hand' (the element seen on the right side of the kanji), along with the element on the left side of the kanji, which is an uncommon non-general use element meaning 'shaman-ess" ("woman shaman"); namely because it comprises an obscure element meaning to link items, and the element for woman. In this character the linked items component lends its sound to express 'chant'.The literal and original meaning of the character  數, is: "woman chanting while holding counting sticks", which in modern times has come to mean primarily count, or 'kazu', and the element has taken a simplified form with the 'link items' element replaced with rice ç±³

There is no connection between 'sukiya' and 'sukimono', sorry.

kikujunjo

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Well, one slight error in the above - I mixed up 寄 with 奇 in my hurry to post. The character 寄 means "draw near, or send (to visit)". The original meaning was to "seek protection in a stranger's house (hence the connection with the aforementioned character '奇' meaning "strange".

Kanji are so fascinating!

kikujunjo

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In reference to the magazine now called 'Sukiya Living', I personally find it a bit absurd as titles go, and especially in consideration of the western target audience for this magazine. Not many westerners are prepared to live on the floor in an uninsulated, high maintenance house with delicate fittings. Sukiya architecture, while striving to create a decidedly upper class idea of the rustic farmhouse, with delicate naturalistic elements, and so forth, is in reality one of the most artificial forms of Japanese architecture. Modern sukiya makes extensive use of veneered material, like posts with dozens of interior laminae and edge grain on all four faces (which is obviously unnatural, though most would not notice this detail). All those delicate structural members conceal a lot of metal connections, threaded rod inside of joints, and so forth, as that is the only way to impart strength to structures made from such delicate components.

Puresukiya-fu buildings are often, it would appear to me about a sort of one-upmanship between the wealthy in terms of who can have the most precious or obscure materials in their buildings. It actually is quite a perversion of what vernacular farmhouses are all about. Sukiya is seemingly trying so hard to be humble sometimes that is becomes a case of "methinketh the lady doth protest too much".

Personally I prefer shoin architecture, with perhaps a little space set aside for sukiya elements. The components are stouter, the material solid wood, and the striving after preciousness kept to a minimum. Some Japanese apparently find shoin-zukuri a little on the heavy and serious side, but i find stoutness, so long as it is not excessive, quite reassuring. Also, from an environmental and long term view perspective, at he end of a building's lifespan it will be much easier to recycle the chunkier components of a shoin building into something useful than from a sukiya building. While I agree with the Zen Buddhist concept of impermanence, which is so clearly expressed in sukiya-zukuri, I would not choose such a design philosophy for a place in which to live.

edzard

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 footnotes:
the previous reference was for Chris, whose succinctness trumps my hallmark verbal verbosity.
- second note, - never say never,.... is that the Kitayama dai-sugi when grown in a metal form provides 'unnatural' edge grain due to the shape of the form and determines the cost of the posts... and also equally unnaturally, the grain naturally shows any embossed shape in the form, as the tree edge grain grows to show that relief shape, such as dragonflies, bats, for a special client their crest mon, and so on.

kikujunjo

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I was not referring to the use of trees grown in a distressed or confined manner, I was referring to laminated and veneered timbers. I first saw one of these in Hokkaido and was marveling at the 'perfect' grain - until I looked at the end of the stick and saw that the post was composed of 0.5x1.5cm strips glue-laminated together, with surface veneers glued to each face. There were dozens of tem arranged on a bench at the shop.

A lot of sukiya building materials are like this unfortunately, in modern construction practice. These sorts of materials do offer improved stability.

I should also add that it is possible to cut a natural solid timber so that it shows edge grain on all 4 faces. The closest term for this is 'rift sawn' in western terminology, and in fact is the preferred grain orientation for most timber components.

edzard

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 :)
thank you for clarifying that edge grain on 4 sides is possible Chris.                .. edzard

 

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